Background Check info

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Background Check info

Postby FarmallB » Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:08 pm

I have several questions about the background check for those more knowledgable than I.

The way I see it the gov't takes your information to make sure at the time of purchase you are not a felon (?) or worse. And, they get the make, model and serial number of the gun you are purchasing for further crime information on that gun. (If it is ever used in a crime, the police can track who bought the firearm.) So far is all this correct? I'm sure there is more to it.

Who actually keeps this info? Exactly what info do they keep? How long?

Do states have different laws on individuals buying and selling guns?

When it comes to individuals selling face to face there is no background check involved. So if the background check is so important you would think Uncle Sam would want private sales recorded as well. I, of course, want to keep all the individual liberties I can so I don't want them requiring me to do this. But in each firearms life, it could be bought and sold many times in private sales but Uncle Sam still thinks the original purcahser is the owner. Since this is the case you would think the background check would almost be useless.

These are just questions and thoughts on my part and I would like to see what others think. I'm sure there is a lot more to this topic.
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Re: Background Check info

Postby bitsman » Mon Nov 11, 2013 12:24 am

I am sure more informed members can add to this... But from what I understand, one of the concessions that had to be made in order to get the background check law passed was that Uncle Sam could not keep any records about who bought what gun and when they bought it... The NICS system is supposed to be purged at the end of each day so that none of the info is saved. (putting on tin foil hat)... Now I do not believe this to be the case... Somewhere in the bowels of the FBI or ATF there is a card with my name on it.. On that card there is listed every gun i have ever bought that I had to have a NICS check done... The form that is filled out is supposed to be kept by the dealer who sold the gun for as long as they are in business.. When they go out of business, all those forms are supposed to be sent to the ATF or FBI.. (dont know which one).

Personally, I have no issue with NICS checks being done for individual, face to face, sales... As long as I can make the call myself and not have to go thru a dealer to get it done. Currently this is not the case... Only FFL holders can make this call. We, as law abiding gun owners, have an obligation to make sure that any guns we might sell are not going to someone who, by law, can not own them.. I have refused to make more then one sale because something did not seem right to me... Once when I put a halt to the transaction the guy offered me twice my price.. talk about bells and whistles going off... HIS license plate number and name was forwarded to my local Sheriff's office, never heard back so I guess nothing came of it. Another time I was met by 3 guys.. One checked out the gun, another chatted me up i can only assume to distract me a little, and the 3rd guy started to hand me the money.. Stopped that sale because I did not know WHO was actually buying the gun. A good way to avoid possible issues with private sales is to only sell to people the carry permits... This is what I have started to do.. This could be an issue if you live in a state that severely restricts Concealed carry permits. For me, here in Alabama this is not an issue because permits are so easy to get almost everyone who owns a gun has a permit.

Cant recall if it was here or over on the Hi Point Forum where I heard this.. But this state,, cant recall which one, does both a Federal and State check.. People have passed one then failed to pass the other and they could not buy the gun.. So some States do have their own system that is not always in sync with the FBI.

Yes.. The current NICS check is pretty useless IMO.. This has been proven time and time again by people, like the Colorado nut job, who legally bought their guns only to turn around and start killing people. If someone wants to use a gun to hurt people they will find a way to get that gun... Plain and simple.. Limitations placed on Mag size, gun (rifle) configuration, or action type mean nothing... A guy with 3 ten round mags for his AR or AK, will hurt just as many people, damn near as fast, as he will with one 30 round mag.. We all know the time it takes to change a mag is mere milli-seconds if you know what you are doing.

I think its morally and ethically correct to place restrictions on who can own firearms.. I doubt anyone here would want their neighbor who has schizophrenia owning any guns... According to the 2nd Amendment, the private ownership of firearms is a right just like free speech is... For those who seek to limit guns, the ownership is a privilege. I doubt these people would say the freedom to worship their chosen religion was a privilege. Looking at the Bill of Rights, our Founding Father felt so strongly about this that they listed the private ownership of firearms #2... Personally I think it should have been #1because without the 2nd Amendment there is no way to force our government to adhere to the rules. (Yeah, still wearing the tin foil hat)...
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Re: Background Check info

Postby adam01364 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:36 am

Bitsman, it is Massachusetts where the FFL has to do both a Federal and State check.. And yes, I have seen cases where buyers have passed the NICS and failed the State -and the other way around. The story the FFL will spin is that the databases haven't been updated, or there is something "in the courts" that hasn't made it to the other agency. (Of course, the poor FFL actually has no idea; they just get the word "denied".) IMHO neither serves well.
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Re: Background Check info

Postby jeffchance » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:35 pm

The NICS background check DOES NOT ask for make, model, or serial number. All they ask is whether it is a handgun, long gun or "other".
Info sent to NICS is supposed to be purged within 30 days from the NICS system.
State agencies may require make, model, and serial no. but NOT NICS.
When you fill out the 4473 Form, that form must be kept by the FFL for 20 YEARS. It is surrendered to BATF only if the FFL does not continue his business.
The government wants to close the Gunshow Loophole, (the FTF sales between individuals), by requiring the transfer take place with a dealer in the middle. All this assures is that the purchaser must pass a NICS check.
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Re: Background Check info

Postby bitsman » Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:30 am

jeffchance wrote:The NICS background check DOES NOT ask for make, model, or serial number. All they ask is whether it is a handgun, long gun or "other".
Info sent to NICS is supposed to be purged within 30 days from the NICS system.
State agencies may require make, model, and serial no. but NOT NICS.
When you fill out the 4473 Form, that form must be kept by the FFL for 20 YEARS. It is surrendered to BATF only if the FFL does not continue his business.
The government wants to close the Gunshow Loophole, (the FTF sales between individuals), by requiring the transfer take place with a dealer in the middle. All this assures is that the purchaser must pass a NICS check.
JEFF


Another thing that closing the so called Gunshow Loophole (really have an issue with that term) assures is that unscrupulous FFL dealers will take advantage of it and begin charge outlandish fees for doing these FTF transfers..
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Re: Background Check info

Postby jeffchance » Tue Nov 12, 2013 10:31 am

A lot of dealers are already charging high fees (some actually do not want to do transfers). I agree, there are some who will severely take advantage of the situation.
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Re: Background Check info

Postby FarmallB » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:54 pm

What exactly is the "Gunshow Loophole?"
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Re: Background Check info

Postby bitsman » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:20 pm

FarmallB wrote:What exactly is the "Gunshow Loophole?"


At gun shows private citizens can sell guns just like a dealer that has a FFL... The difference is that the only dealer have to perform NICS check when they sell a gun there. As a private citizen I dont have to do that check... Its just a regular face to face private sale... The gun control crowd came up with that term.."Gunshow Loophole" .. There is no loophole..
"You broke into my house, Stole my property, Murdered my Servants and my pets, And that is what GRIEVES me the most" Can you name the movie????

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Re: Background Check info

Postby FarmallB » Sun Apr 20, 2014 9:32 pm

if the powers that be (ncis or whomever) throw out your gun purchase info, then when a crime happens with a certain weapon, in the news, it is sometimes reported when and where the firearm was sold. How does that work?
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Re: Background Check info

Postby jeffchance » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:32 pm

They follow the path of the firearm. From the mfg/importer to the distributor to the dealer. Dealer looks it up in his A&D book, and it has the owner's info and 4473 info. Sometimes the dealer transfers it to another dealer, then they transfer it to the owner. This cycle can continue for quite a while. Often times the last owner has reported it stolen and if there is a proper police report, they are off the hook. If it is in the possession of someone other than the last owner, there are lots of questions to be answered.

If the last owner took it to a gun show and sold it, hopefully they have some sort of record or receipt to prove where it went to. If not, there are lots of questions to be answered.

Hope this answers some questions.
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