Question For FFL holders

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Question For FFL holders

Postby bitsman » Mon Sep 07, 2015 9:17 pm

Not sure where this should go, so if it needs to be moved thats cool...

I am seriously considering building an AR pistol... Complete uppers in the 8 to 10 inch range are pretty reasonable, if you can get one on sale they run sub $300 with BCG and charging handle... Not bad... That brings me too a lower ... and my question...

Lets say I go into the LGS and they have a few stripped lowers.... I decide the price is right and want to get one.. I fill out the 4473.. and makes the call... Now... Here is the question.. He tells them whether its a handgun, rifle, shotgun.. Right?... From what I understand no serial numbers are given.. Right?... Can the FFL legally say that the lower being transferred is for a pistol.. (handgun)... The reason I am asking is because lowers that are advertised as PISTOL lowers are upwards of $50 or $75 more expensive the those advertised as RIFLE lowers.... I am not trying to game the system... I just want too know how the system works so that if I am given false info about the rules I will know to call BS and take my business else where...
"You broke into my house, Stole my property, Murdered my Servants and my pets, And that is what GRIEVES me the most" Can you name the movie????

"Remember Ladies.... If you don't stand for something, You'll fall for anything..."
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby jeffchance » Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:04 pm

A stripped lower is considered as "other" as it is neither a pistol or rifle (handgun, long gun) in block #18. It doesn't become a pistol or rifle until it is attached to an upper and is functional.
Block #28, serial number, will be listed on the 4473 but are NOT passed on to the ATF.
Block #29, Type, will likely be listed as a lower receiver or just receiver.
Block #30 will usually be "Multi" or the actual caliber.

Pages 3-6 of the 4473 address specifics to each line of the form, if there are questions.

As far as what the FFL will call in to NICS or use E-Check, they will be stating that you are attempting to purchase an "other"

That is as far as NICS goes. Some states have their own system but again, rely on info from the 4473 and possibly a Concealed Weapons Licence or Firearm Owner's ID card or similar.

Also, many states do not require a NICS check if you have a valid Concealed Weapons Licence or similar documentation. The 4473 must be filled out in all cases. It is retained by the FFL for 20 years and does not go to the FED's unless they close business or specifically requested by ATF, in which case, they get a copy.

Hope this addresses your concerns.
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby bitsman » Wed Sep 09, 2015 5:11 am

Cool.. Thx Jeff.. Was hoping you would reply. Yes, that answers my question's perfectly.

Down here in the land of Dixie we have no additional State checks that are done.. When the FFL gets a PROCEED from NICS, we walk out with what ever we purchased... I have been hearing some scuttlebutt about changing the law so that those of us that have CCW's can bypass the NICS phone call, but I will believe it when I see it.

My Rossi 972 should be delivered this afternoon.. So when I am there picking that up I will talk to the LGS about this and see when they say.

Thx again
"You broke into my house, Stole my property, Murdered my Servants and my pets, And that is what GRIEVES me the most" Can you name the movie????

"Remember Ladies.... If you don't stand for something, You'll fall for anything..."
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby jeffchance » Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:14 am

Another note: do not pay more for a stripped lower that is marked "pistol". There is no difference from a "rifle" other than the stamping and MORE money. There are a bunch of dealers out there charging more for a "pistol" lower to cash in on the current popularity.
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby bitsman » Fri Sep 11, 2015 8:28 pm

jeffchance wrote:Another note: do not pay more for a stripped lower that is marked "pistol". There is no difference from a "rifle" other than the stamping and MORE money. There are a bunch of dealers out there charging more for a "pistol" lower to cash in on the current popularity.
JEFF


That is exactly my point... I could not see paying more for a PISTOL lower when there is absolutely no difference. Here's another question... Say I buy a COMPLETE lower that has a butt stock already installed instead of just the pistol buffer tube... something like this..http://www.joeboboutfitters.com/New_Frontier_Armory_LW_15_Complete_Poly_Lower_p/nfa-lw15blk.htm... would this be a "RIFLE" or "OTHER" according to the form? even though it has never had an upper installed on it... The New Frontier poly lowers are a real good deal for entry level AR's... I know lots of AR FANBOYS despise them.. But I recall the same things being said about the GLOCK 17 when it first started to be imported... Now pretty much every large PD/Sheriff Dept issues a poly framed gun...
"You broke into my house, Stole my property, Murdered my Servants and my pets, And that is what GRIEVES me the most" Can you name the movie????

"Remember Ladies.... If you don't stand for something, You'll fall for anything..."
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby jeffchance » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:17 pm

It would still be an "other" as it is not yet a rifle or pistol, yet.
The NFA poly lowers are top notch quality.
Joe Bob's is another quality supplier and their shipping speed is second to none.
If you order one from JBO, see if they will throw in a shirt for free, too.
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby bitsman » Sat Sep 12, 2015 8:21 pm

jeffchance wrote:It would still be an "other" as it is not yet a rifle or pistol, yet.
The NFA poly lowers are top notch quality.
Joe Bob's is another quality supplier and their shipping speed is second to none.
If you order one from JBO, see if they will throw in a shirt for free, too.
JEFF


Plus.. Orders over $90 ship free... except handgun I think....Their current price for these complete lowers is $109.. Thats darn good for a complete lower... I know a couple guys down here that bought one of these for dedicated M4-22's...
"You broke into my house, Stole my property, Murdered my Servants and my pets, And that is what GRIEVES me the most" Can you name the movie????

"Remember Ladies.... If you don't stand for something, You'll fall for anything..."
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby jeffchance » Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:33 pm

Very good price considering a lower parts kit is $50+ and a stock kit at another $50, the lower, AND NO ASSEMBLY REQUIRED! Shipped free. :D
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby Admin » Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:25 am

Good post Jeff.
Thanks.
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Re: Question For FFL holders

Postby LCPfraTN » Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:23 pm

I would be cautious about buying a complete lower with a stock and then purchasing a pistol upper. If you don't have a lower without a stock on it at the time you acquire the pistol upper, the ATF could determine that you have a SBR without the appropriate license and tax stamp fees paid. I'd buy a stripped lower and parts kit or a lower with just a smooth buffer tube (a pistol lower) to be on the safe side. Obviously, Jeff and Mr SNS are more knowledgable than I am, but I've relied on guidance from guys that build a lot of ARs and the golden rule is to always make it a pistol first so there is never any question about a SBR. I usually keep a few stripped lowers and parts kits around, and I also have a dedicated pistol lower so there can never be any question about whether or not I have a SBR.
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