JCP 40

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Re: JCP 40

Postby lost californian » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:44 am

Thank you for the pointers. Will look at all that next time he brings it over. Got a little too cold to shoot outside right now, but checking shell casings in the extractor is a workbench thing. Will let you know when I know.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby Stik » Fri Feb 12, 2016 4:59 pm

FYI, I had to polish the feed ramp on my 45 to get it to feed hollow points reliably.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby David Vincent » Fri Feb 12, 2016 8:41 pm

kalboy wrote:I agree with David that this most likely isn't a mag issue. The only thing I might add to the good advice he's provided above may be to suggest to clean and dry the chamber. Follow this with chucking a length of cleaning rod in a cordless drill, attach a bronze bore brush and work the chamber over. Then attach a bore mop coated with Flitz or some such and slick the chamber well, then clean . This cured a balky extracting and ejecting Marlin Camp 9 for me once.


That is typically the protocol for a very rough chamber on a barrel. It is a good practice and generally doesnt hurt anything on SNS guns. Every hipoint And SNS gun in general has very lose chambers (not a horrible thing in this design). It can help to slick things up a bit.

a note.... you can have issues after polishing this way with top extraction guns like ravens, sundances, and davis. Nothing that cannot be fixed you just have to watch it.

If the chamber is indeed rough on the hipoint 40 its certainly not going to hurt.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby David Vincent » Fri Feb 12, 2016 9:18 pm

lost californian wrote:Thank you for the pointers. Will look at all that next time he brings it over. Got a little too cold to shoot outside right now, but checking shell casings in the extractor is a workbench thing. Will let you know when I know.


you can figure a lot out without shooting it. just remember the striker has to be released when you test the extraction. There is no recess on the breech face to support the case on the hipoint guns (some sns guns have it some dont) and the extractor claw typically does not hold the case like more upper end guns. the extraction system is very very crude but it works and is a necessary when you dealing with inexpensive crudely designed pistols to work off extremely loose tolerences.

The claw grabs the rim..... the blowback pushes it back.....the Firing pin pushes into the back of the primer. Then the moment the case clears the chamber the spring loaded pin pushes forward rolling the case around the claw. You can actually make these guns eject forward to the right if you know how to work the angle on the front of the claw.

Its different from a "real" gun though as typically the extractor should hold the spent case fully even after the case clears the chamber until the dedicated ejector comes into play. There is more of a delay in the ejection where as the SNS gun ejects much earlier in the sequence.

whats better? The SNS system is very good for loose tolerances and saves you one part. at the same time,your using one part for two functions and the Typical SNS firing pin is not the most robust design ever. It works though. The extraction design overall would be a lot better if they used dual extractors like they do in the carbines. Then you have double,the surface contact to Grab the rim and there is a bit,more support. The thin flat metal extractor is real crude and it absolutely must grab the rim with that claw. You can increase the grab effect by using a stronger extractor spring it just takes some looking and experimenting.

ONE major issue to consider. since the fireing pin works as an ejector. Dont cycle live rounds through the action. Every time you do the FP with come into contact with the primer if the live round is held against the breech face. If you do point it in a very safe direction and cycle very, very slowly almost letter the live cartridge fall out of the action. If you do a hard cycle you can have a negligent discharge. I was actually banned from the hipoint forum for trying to explain this to a member a few years back. Its a safe design overall you just have to understand what your dealing with.

A real extraction system on a higher end gun is definitely better but it requires quite a bit more manufacturing and adherence to tolerances. my personal favorite extraction system and feed system is found on the makarov. It is a perfect system IMO and a major part of the reason they never malfunction. The makarov design is a work of art.

The are a lot of upper end guns that have major extraction issues these days. The tolerances on the claw can be so critical that even minor dimension changes in ammo spec throw them out of wack. In this case the extractor needs to be tuned. This is something 1911 new fans have learned to understand very well. I will say that extractor tuning and fitting is very very tedious and often nerve racking. an the good side many manufacturers now make extractors that are much much easier to tune by adding a pad on the of the extractor just behind the claw.

so there is some extraction info for you guys. Its not rocket science. basic stuff and easy to learn. It sounds worse than it is. when the stuff is in your hands and you have the right tools its pretty easy.

sorry to be so long winded.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby David Vincent » Fri Feb 12, 2016 10:34 pm

Stik wrote:FYI, I had to polish the feed ramp on my 45 to get it to feed hollow points reliably.


when you polish the feed ramps on hipoints its a very good idea to remove the barrel. Honestly .... polishing feedramps is a really bad practice to get into. Its kind of a sloppy way to fix a problem and can cause a lot of problems that are really tricky to fix. Reliable Feeding is achieved in multiple areas....breech face, extractor clearance, chamber, feed ramp etc. the problem with sloppy polishing feed ramps is that a small change in the angle can really screw with the other areas.

Now we are talking hipoints so its a bit different territory. 1st being you have to be really really careful with hollowpoints. The feed ramp on a hipoint is zamak which is soft enough that repeated used of hollowpoints can dig in and scar the feedramp. Its even worse if you polish off the enamel finish which gives a little more durability. These gun are not really made for sharp mouthed hollow point ammo. Unless your trying to beat it to death. if thats the case go to it. hipoint will replace the barrel.

Lots of very rough areas on these guns though. Lets look,at improvments

smoother feeding is usually a process of polishing chamber, polishing breech face, extraction checking and improving (better spring) along with debur if needed. when you get the feel you can tune the direction of extraction. Sometimes the feedramp can be smoothed a little on SNS guns but its typically a manufacturing defect if its needed. haveing a reference point and checking magazine feedlip dimensions is a good idea as well mainly with the 9mm guns. The other hipoint mags are not nearly as finicky.

accuracy your looking at barrel recrown (hi-points crown jobs suck), trigger work (can be a little tricky), getting the paint out of the inside of the barrel (yes the inside!), and maybe fire lapping the barrels (I have not messed with this yet but its on the list). Hipooints are very very accurate guns fundamentaly but its a little work to bring out the potential.

action smoothing is just the standard fluff and buff but tolerances are so loose on this design its minor. Usually its just cleaning and smoothing up the firing pin channel.

ergonomics is mainly dealing with the slippery slimy grips with a good stipple job or some traction tape.



in the end they are great weapons. real classic guns IMO. they get trashed and made fun of but the design is very very sound. Its your typical raven design which has proven both reliable, durable, and accurate. From a SHTF standpoint parts are very cheap and in a dire situation can be easily produced from scrap metal using very basic tools. They can take major, major, major abuse and neglect that most design cannot and are inexpensive to produce and purchase making it a win/win all around. Its one of the most copied designs in firearms history and does not get the respect it deserves.

downside they are a bit clunky and cheap feeling. an eyesore to most gun owners but i think they are beautiful in their crude simplicity. They cover the most basic principles of a multi shot semi automatic pistol with a very low parts count similar to a garage built pistol. You just cannot compare aesthetics to that of a quality built firearms from steel and aluminum. think of them as a futuristic weapon or a late war german design when they were running out of materials to make weapons and had to experiment with weapons made from steel stampings...single flight airplanes etc. etc.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby Stik » Sat Feb 13, 2016 6:57 pm

I don't normally shoot hollow points out of my Hi-Point, but I want to know that I can. I understood the risks (which I personally think are minor), but I can always send it back for a free repair if it gets too bad. I polished the ramp several years ago and it still looks good today- it doesn't have any scratches or gouges. I agree that if your HP works fine with hollow points then you should leave well enough alone.

The paint on my feed ramp was thick and a bit rough, so it really needed to be worked. I didn't have this problem with the carbine, however.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby FergusonTO35 » Sat Feb 13, 2016 8:55 pm

Excellent advice, David. Maybe you'll want to start up your own version of Cylinder & Slide for Hi-Point!
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Re: JCP 40

Postby David Vincent » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:00 am

Stik wrote:I don't normally shoot hollow points out of my Hi-Point, but I want to know that I can. I understood the risks (which I personally think are minor), but I can always send it back for a free repair if it gets too bad. I polished the ramp several years ago and it still looks good today- it doesn't have any scratches or gouges. I agree that if your HP works fine with hollow points then you should leave well enough alone.

The paint on my feed ramp was thick and a bit rough, so it really needed to be worked. I didn't have this problem with the carbine, however.


yeah sometimes there is a lot of layers in different areas. Last time i talked to one of their techs he told me it was an epoxy dip sometimes.

I picked up one that had so much paint on the inside of the barrel I had to fill it with citristrip and do a lot of scrubbing to get it out. That smooth black epoxy they use is some tough stuff. Much tougher that the paint on the slide.

Hey... an idea regarding HP ammo. you might do some research on filling the cavity on your JHP. Some people will fill with different materials. everything i have read show it increases expansion similar to the soft polymer tipped hunting ammo. i have not messed with it but its interesting. Doesn't cost much and maybe just some time experimenting with techniques to get the right shape.

it used to be more popular to put things in hollowpoints. my first gun dealer used to drill out bullets and put primers in there. There was a commercial version of this design many years ago.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby David Vincent » Sun Feb 14, 2016 2:28 am

FergusonTO35 wrote:Excellent advice, David. Maybe you'll want to start up your own version of Cylinder & Slide for Hi-Point!


LOL.... never had a lesson.

seriously I have been tinkering with guns since i was maybe 13 and bought a beretta 92 with my paper route money. Everything i learned is self taught and experimentation. There are a lot of guns I have not mastered but I know SNS guns and some of the classics inside and out. They are a lot of fun but can also be frustrating as a lot of principles of gun smithing don't apply. I almost look at them as toys that fire real bullets. with some work a lot of them can perform as well as "real" guns.... sometimes even outperform.

i have a pretty impressive library of gun smithing books but there is one in particular that is like a bible for me. Most of this info is straight out of that book so i am not some genius or anything. I can read though.

The main reason i get so long winded is because i dont want to save you gents the frustrations and screw ups. i also dont want to see you shoot yourself. Plus i like to talk gunsmithing.

Never ever get lazy when working on a hipoint and do a cycle test with live ammo without the slide retaining pin in place! If you do ... go outside and aim into a sand bucket because its probably going to go off. I wont test cycle live ammo period in these guns unless there is no other option. If so.......

take out the fireing pin to test feeding.
use empty cases for testing extraction.

and I would not test feeding with live ammo on any of the 22lr guns because you can run the risk of a slam fire. For those you need to test feeding with the little blue aluminum dummy rounds. extraction can be tested with empties as can dry fireing..... save you empty 22 casings if you work on guns!

anyways...any way i can help. This is a unique place. pretty much the only place that does not shun the crackhead and pimp guns. i suspect a lot of us here like harbor freight as well LOL.
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Re: JCP 40

Postby FergusonTO35 » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:55 am

I think lead bullets with a big flat nose offer the best balance of expansion and penetration for handgun rounds. They do expand some but still penetrate well. Best of all they are cheap and use less powder to achieve the same velocity as a jacketed bullet.
"If magic is to be defined as the use of ineffective means to allay anxiety when effective ones are not available, then we must conclude that no society will ever be completely free from it." -Keith Thomas, Religion and the Decline of Magic, 1971.
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